I'd heard some celebrities were really into it which made me not so interested. Typically, I steer away from stuff celebs are "pushing".
Then, I heard it was a "true" story which caught my attention. I guess because I had no idea it was true?!! I dunno. But I was interested....
Shortly thereafter I learn it's about to be released as a huge blockbuster movie with Julia Roberts as the main character.
That got me ;) Julia Roberts? I mean come on! If she's making the movie the book must be killer, right?!
No. Not Right.
I still wish I hadn't read it. I could have saved myself the anger (righteous anger) and frustration this "book" has caused me.
But. Now. Now...Now I know to much. I have read it. And I have to talk about it.
Again, I'm STEAMIN' about PERSONAL PREFERENCES so ya know whateva...thankfully this is my blog so my personal preferences are allowed to get vented out here...but...readers, especially if you are new here, beware is all I'm sayin'.
Okay.....Let me start with my review....(uh-hem...cough cough...clear throat....look left...look right....Okay...I'm jumpin' in....both feet...ready set...JUMP):
A few words in regards to my opinion of this book:
*SELF-IDOLATRY
*HUMANISM
*WASTEFULNESS
*MISLEADING
*CONTRADICTING
About the storyline of the book...
A short version is that a married (without children) woman (Elizabeth Gilbert, the author) decides she needs to "FIND" her "self".
So, of course, she divorces, and heads out on a year-long adventure to discover "self".
To do this, she indulges in food in Italy, and some flirting. Still didn't find her "self". Apparently, "she" wasn't in that plate of spaghetti. Who knew?
Then, she's off to India for a renewal retreat for many months with her spiritual guide.
The retreat, however, is ALL about her "inner" being. Finding her vague, anonymous, elevated "Self"....which apparently looks a bit like a bright blue, glowing orb but doesn't necessarily respond to her. (even though she tried REALLY REALLY REALLY hard to connect with 'it'....)
After MONTHS of looking INSIDE herself in India....and finding little...(guess the bright blue orb didn't have what she was looking for completely)....
She heads to Bali. She knows a medicine man there who she wants to spend time with.
(Apparently, she met him at yet a previous 'soul finding retreat' she'd attended years before....dang..just WHERE is her soul anyways? Or "her" for that matter? Just where did she leave "it"? {eye roll})
Now, she spends additional MONTHS on, essentially, vacation "finding her "self" further.
{Meanwhile, she -oh so not shockingly - falls "in love" with a man}
Apparently, towards the end of the year she has a HINT of getting HER brain/heart out of her OWN butt...er...I mean.... problems and raises some money to help a new Bali friend.
But, even then, the fundraising turns out to be ALOT about the author and little about the help.
I really shouldn't have been surprised at that point....Why did I think she'd suddenly think about OTHERS for more than a moment?
Sigh.
Truly, Ms. Gilbert, by the time I had finished your book...I wanted to (and did) throw it against a wall....
You are setting a dangerous precedent for your (my) generation.
That we, especially women, need to "find" ourselves WITHIN ourselves. That is -simply- not true.
Sorry....Ms. Gilbert....You will find NOTHING in "there"....
ALL of what you need to find this peace you call "self" is OUTSIDE of you, literally .
But, sadly, that is a MUCH harder option than jumping from exotic location to exotic location claiming to be looking for your "self" internally.
You tried to "find" your "self" by being celibate and introspective in Italy. However, did you ONCE consider volunteering ANYWHERE in that country?
I PROMISE you would have found a BIT of yourself in that VERY moment of volunteerism.
You, Ms. Gilbert....You spent MONTHS in India...sometimes functioning within a "silent retreat" to find your "self"....silent for DAYS AND DAYS....looking INWARD?
How about OUTWARD?
India could have used your volunteer services...you could have assisted in the human trafficking problem, the poverty of the people .... you could have used your writing knowledge to teach a vocational skill to locals who could, in turn, improve THEIR life...
I PROMISE this would have VASTLY improved YOU (and, gasp, your "self") even MORE than it improved them. PROMISE.
No plate of spaghetti, silent retreat, meanderings across unknown lands, promises to your "SELF", meditation upon an inner and higher plane, no Indian guru, no medicine man, nope!
NONE of that helped find your "self" like looking OUTSIDE OF YOU WOULD HAVE.
But. Ouch. That's hard, and dirty, and real, and raw, and in your face.
Icky.
You wouldn't want to do that now would you? All those NORMAL, REAL people NEEDING things? ew.
No, honey, you just keep looking inward...it's much safer and easier with that view.
UGH! CUSS! DANG!
This book is DANGEROUS people.
I am NOT exaggerating. I am not being dramatic.
The ideas in this book elevate the state of "self" above that of the state of "others". The INSTANT that happens in a life....well...truly....it's kinda all over for the rest of those around you....if you care or not.
The MERE IDEA that you have to look "INWARD" for guidance is a type of human idol worship that is being subtly threaded into so many of our pop culture outlets.
It's truly not hard to discover if my thoughts are right or wrong.
Spend ONE week doing EVERYTHING you want for YOURSELF.
Spend another week doing EVERYTHING you can for SOMEONE ELSE.
Tell me which experience you find more of your "self" in? We are NOT made to look inward....We are made to look outward....
Parenthood.
Tending to the elderly.
Tending to the disabled.
Assisting the poor. The widowed.
Teaching a new skill to someone ELSE.
Spending time running errands for an invalid.
Adoption. Fostering. Babysitting.
Supportive Friendships. Being PRESENT in times of TROUBLE.
CLINGING to marriage VOWS even when it SUX.
I am not proposing that one must spend every waking hour being "other-oriented" but I AM proposing that living in this "Other-Oriented" state is where we, as a human race, are to reside...
Ms. Gilbert, if you had thought of others...Say your FIRST husband....Where would you be today? Just asking.
Ms. Gilbert, if you had spent time in the streets of New York City serving sandwiches to the homeless instead of indulging in pasta for weeks, do you think you might have discovered something about how the world is SUPPOSED to turn for you, versus how it had been?
And now, folks...Oh...It only gets BETTER with her "Eat Pray Love" sequel.
"Committed" is coming out next...and...guess what? Ms. Gilbert claims it is a more of a research paper on "marriage" than anything else.
See, due do immigration LAWS, her new South American beau that she'd met in Bali could only reside in the U.S. if he was married to a citizen. Thus, she claims, they were "forced to wed by the Homeland Security Office".
Blahooey.
Just great fodder for a follow-up book that is showing her TRUE agenda....She'd been 'global' for a year, he, as stated in the first book, lives globally...why not just live somewhere else versus letting mean old Homeland Security 'force' you into marriage?
Her new book, she claims, demonstrates how "marriage" wasn't "sacred" in the early Christian church until the Catholic church 'took it over' for control and political reasons.
In fact, she goes so far as to say that early Christian leaders considered "marriage" a secular and political entity and proposed that the best way to be close to God was to remain celibate.
She needs to keep reading the New Testament I think!
Yep, it says to remain "celibate" is superb, great, spiritual but that if one decides marriage is for you, then go for it with all your might! The Bible says to "go LOOK for a wife".
What version was Ms. Gilbert reading?
And, the Christian New Testament (which was written within 120 years of Christ's death...which translates in 120 a.d.) mentions marriage multiple times...
Even the Ten Commandements mention marriage and they were written centuries before the New Testament...though Ms. Gilbert claims that the Christian church did not get "involved" in marriage until, "about a 1000 years ago."
Ms. Gilbert is trying to get her "sheep" (followers that don't think) to subtly start believing that Christianity doesn't hold marriage as "sacred" as we modern Christians make it out to be.
You are flat wrong on this one, Ms. Gilbert...In fact...you are SO very wrong that your ulterior motives shine through with a bright light.
What could her ulterior motives be?
hhhhmmm.....
Well, to "de-sanctify" marriage from a "religious" level ... and.....apparently...
Ms. Gilbert thinks that allowing gay marriage will REFRESH the "idea" of marriage.
So, she wants to legalize gay marriage. To remove the foundations that the institution of marriage stands upon.
See, since, according to Ms. Gilbert, the early Christian church wasn't even involved with marriage then what could the Bible, or any ancient text, have anything to say about the definition of marriage? Surely nothing.
She claims marriage has 'evolved' into a new entity as of now....really? Evolved? Evolved from what? From the ancient, accepted definition of a "man + wife" into ..... what?
There's no where to "evolve" unless you can show me a Man/Woman EVOLVING into another gender.
If she wants to CHANGE THE DEFINITION of marriage that is what she should say...not couch it in cool, modern words like "evolve".... but, sheep like the word "evolve" so I am sure it will work with many....
The gay/lesbian community, according to statements made by Ms. Gilbert, are reminding old fuddy-duddy's like Christians, Jews, etc what it "really" means to "want" to be married. The love, the intimacy, etc.
She equates it to new people moving into a downtrodden neighborhood and spicing things up. It will attract more people to the area.
So, now that the gays/lesbians WANT the legal certificate that says they are 'married' so much it will 'inspire' others to marriage...but..um...in your first book...you thought marriage was an institution that promoted the poverty and sacrifice of women. Odd, this change from book to book Ms. Gilbert.
If two women are married, how will they decide which one should be downtrodden or the sacrificial lamb for the other's career? I'm confused personally.
BTW, Ms. Gilbert....the gay/lesbain community want legal marriages mostly for insurance and adoption reasons. Not because they have rediscovered the sanctity of marriage but because they want to change the legal systems in America in ways they were never set up to be used.
It has NOTHING to do with spiritual or religious beliefs.
It has everything to do with LAW.
IF America VOTES to allow gay marriage, and the LAW is changed accordingly....fine! Till then, it is not legal.
If America VOTES to change the word "marriage" to "legal contract" within our legal system.... fine...until then....don't pretend to want to be more "evolved", "forward", "open-minded".... Say what you mean.
You want the legal system changed. Say THAT ...not the cushy, vague innuendos that you like to use on your website, in your writings, etc.
However, writing oohey-gooey books about this will help the sheep line up in the way the leader wants.
Friends, Enemies, Readers, Thinkers....Don't be a sheep.
Do NOT get herded by this book.
Do NOT be swayed by the sappy-sweet movie that will surely be a blockbuster.
There is a HUGE agenda behind this book and it's writer... there is an agenda to elevate "self" above others and to change the foundational precepts of what is legally referred to as "marriage".
Back to that plate of spaghetti, blue orb, medicine man....all those place your "self" wasn't (well at least not till you found your new man...eye roll)
A true "Self" looks to help others, thus becoming less of "self" and more to them....but oddly enough ending up better than when it all started.
For example...
Every nurse in every hospital
The 10 aid workers who were just murdered in Afghanistan.
"Habitat for Humanity" volunteers
The soldiers who risk their lives for your freedoms.
The teachers who serve the public.
The police officers who take the bullets for us.
THEY have it figured out. They know where their "selves" are. Go talk to them next time you are looking for yours.
And leave the definition of marriage to the voters.
Andrea
Ms. Gilbert! I had an idea!!
Maybe if you start with a simple lemonade stand and give the money to OTHERS?
That might be a good first baby step to looking OUTWARD. Just thinkin' out loud...ya know how I am. (snarky)
35 PLEASE give your thoughts! Click to comment!:
Great paragraph:
"If two women are married, how will they decide which one should be downtrodden or the sacrificial lamb for the other's career? I'm confused personally."
Good post girl!
Jim
Excellent post Andrea!! I was going back and forth on whether or not to read the book and/or see the movie. I am SO GLAD I read through your entire post and now I don't have to waste those precious hours of my life!! I am so sorry you had to read such an awful book, but I think your post is excellent and hopefully will prevent others from having to go through the misery. Excellent, excellent review!!
Wow Excellent post! I just hear about the book/movie.
I really hope that one the day the author will read this...
I AM DEFINITELY NOT a SHEEP
I'm not a sheep either however, I do take a different stance to the one that you have. First though, since it's a much shorter comment I'll tackle the paragraph that Jim pointed out in the comments:
1-Both people can work. Neither has to be a "sacrificial lamb" (or downtrodden) for the other one. If they both want a career, it's possible for them both to have it. (Just as it's possible for a man and a woman in a marriage to both have careers).
2-If one is more career driven and the other is not and wants to stay home and be a housewife, then guess what? They are free to do that and neither would be a sacrificial lamb still!
Same sex marriage really works no differently than a man/woman marriage.
Now, onto the "self idolatry" stuff~ I want to preface this by saying that I have NOT read the book but do plan to see the movie. I actually wasn't aware it was based on a book until you made this post and so, when I can, I will be reading it as well to see how much the movie actually sticks to the original storyline.
That being said...
By looking "inward" you are not idolizing yourself. Christianity teaches that a bit of God/Jesus lives in each person right? Well, then wouldn't it stand to reason that if you look within you will find him? Meditation--which the author does--is merely the quieting of the mind so that you can hear your own inner voice which most people (I won't say all because there are some atheists that meditate) will say is the voice of God speaking to them.
Searching inside yourself is in NO WAY idolizing yourself--I'm sorry I really don't see where you're getting that idea.
Also, if you try to "find yourself" outside of yourself you are going to be made into what everyone else wants you to be. If you hadn't done a little bit of looking inwards and listening to that inner voice, you probably wouldn't be painting. Or playing the Cello. You'd be doing whatever everyone else wants you to do--playing dress up or helping build lego castles. Not that there's anything wrong with looking pretty and creating something fabulous but in that process of constantly servicing others, you sacrifice yourself. (Sorry for the childish examples, was having trouble thinking of adult things--oh here's some: You'd only be mother, sister, friend, and wife. You wouldn't be Andrea)
One other thing that's been bugging me that people seem to think that your post brought up: I don't know of any one, in any faith/religion/spirituality, that actually worships an IDOL. (Idol meaning statues here). The images you see depicted in the Hindu culture (say of Kali or Ganesha) and Pagan cultures etc are merely representations of deities the same way your iconic paintings are a depiction of Jesus. The statues are not Gods themselves and nor do people believe those statues themselves have any power or are any kind of deity. Saying a Hindu worships a statue of Laksmi would be like saying you worship pictures of Jesus.
[smile] "Eat. Pray. PUKE." That's funny.
~Luke
This is my first exposure to your blog and - Wow! - it was intense! I haven't read the book you reviewed, but it sounds like the author is like my 15 year old daughter - selfish! But, my goal as a mother is to get her past being selfish and look to the needs of others. Hence, my being an "evil mother" and making her do things like help at the Senior Nutrition Site, etc. But, I expect her to grow out of it, not wallow in it as the author of the book appears to be doing.
This book wasn't on my "to read" list, but I certainly won't be tempted to put it there now!
Catherine
I'm back and just in time for Eat Pray Puke!! ...After reading how self indulged the main character is in the book I now know why J.Roberts did the movie! (Feeling a little snarky myself!) It's the laugh ..it drives me crazy.. and I love a good laugh so I don't understand why!
BTW..Love the car!
wonder how long it will take OPRAH to have her back on? PUHLEESE! I watched her on Oprah and thought "WHAT? REALLY? you divorced your husband, went to eat SPAGHETTI and Pray in another country and you got ON OPRAH? FOR THAT?"
come on..maybe I should write about how OREOS are craved only once a month and the IMPACT those Oreos have on not ONLY my psychological mindset but my FAMILY? WOW! oohhhh..I can hear Oprah now!
"So tell me Bretta...OREOS, when did you discover that they were the KEY to your happiness every 3 weeks? How did you see and feel such a emotional change in a Oreo?" (they really DO make me feel happy every 3 weeks or so! LOL) But I am NOT putting it in a book and begging OPRAH to have me on!
Give me a BREAK...that book and movie will not be viewed by this house. Its ridiculous...and almost pathetic that her ramblings got attention at all.
Great Post Andrea!!
Great post Andrea. I read yesterday that Ms. Roberts is now a Buddhist from her experiences making the movie
When you all read this post, is there an annoying "photobucket" box that says a pic is no longer available...and the box follows your down as your scroll......
Or am I losing it in Blogger land???????????
Andrea
Renee -
You are confusing Idol with Icons.
Idols are made up. Have you ever seen an elephant with arms? Or a lady with snakes coming out of her?
There is nor ever will be a "Ganesh", "Kali", a "Lasmki". They are figments of imagination. "Idols".
There was never a "Buddha". He is a mystical creation.....no documented ancient text can confirm a "Buddha".
Also, you have been misled on how Hindus, etc worship these idols.
They DO consider the IDOL sacred....holy...reverent. THus the gifts to the idols at altars. Their idols are treated with more respect than the lower classes of humans.
However, an ICON is a representation of an actual event or person.
An ICON can be anything from a popular music figure (Elvis Presley), to a depiction of a historical event, to photographs that are burned in our mind (the anonymous sailor kissing the nurse after victory from WWII...it's "iconic"....it happened....it's famous)
Christ is a documented man from history. Iconic art is not worshiped. People do not sacrifice "things" in front of Icons as the do Idols.
Icons are used as remembrances of past things....spiritually, culturally, historically.
In regards to meditating and 'finding' God inside...
Christ, as a person, is not a "thing" living within me. Not a blue orb or an elevated plane of consciousness.
His Spirit resides within my heart as a guiding force and I do mediate/pray for guidance...but I am not looking to elevate the holy spirit into a realm it is not already in. I do not have the power to make the Holy Spirit more powerful. I only have the power to focus more on it to allow it to guide me better.
I am not looking for a "new" area of my "SELF" that I didn't know before....as Elizabeth Gilbert was.
There is no super-spritiual Christianese that tries to find that higher "chakra" which will let their "self" find peace.
The Bible is very clear where peace is found...In loving God, our neighbors, and in obedience to His guidelines.
The BODY of Christ is not "IN" me. I cannot just "look" deeper and find "more" Christ.
When one accepts Christ...you get the full meal deal right then and there! No more looking needed!
Also,
I believe you are confusing the words "yourself" and "self".
The author clearly idolizes "Self".....She wants to find "it". She thinks a clearer version of who her "self" is will guide her. But there is no hidden "self" within us.
By idolizing "Self" she diminishes "others" which is a worldview that is very "cool" and "trendy" these days....but not very productive for society truly.
(but boy is it easier and quieter than getting down and dirty with those in true need)
And, BTW, Same Sex marriage does NOT work the same as Man/Woman marriage.
Basic laws of nature demonstrate that for you. If it did work the same, same sex marriages would be able to pro-create...and they cannot.
There are no animals that think they should start mating with the same gender.
Male horses still want female horses.
Male dogs still wants female dogs.
et al.
It is the humanistic worldview that makes humans think same-sex marriage will "work".
If we just become more "enlightened" it will work.
Unless men start evolving vaginas or women penis', then the laws of nature and procreation ONLY work with a MAN and a WOMAN....which, is, fundamentally, the purpose of marriage...to procreate.
One this count...the animals seem to be smarter than some of the humans running around this planet.
I'd like to see you try to get a male lion mate with another male lion. the LION understands this goes against the laws of nature....why can't humans?
Andrea
Hey readers...
all the deleted comments were really mean idiots who I didn't want here.
JOKING!!! haha
My blogger button went bozo...My comment published numerous times....I didn't figure you'd want to read the same comment 7 or 8 times so I deleted them for your mental health ;)
And..
BRETTA - I BET YOUR COULD GET ON OPRAH WITH THAT OREO STORY!!! Snort.....I mean...WHY NOT?
If that OREO helped you find "self" then the nation NEEDS to know! eye roll
Andrea
You obviously must not know any gay people.
Marriage is a legal act, and has nothing to do with religion. You do not get a marriage license from a church, you get it from the town hall. You go to a church and do the act of marriage if you are religious, but many people simply go to a town hall because they are not religious--and MARRIAGE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION.
Gay people simply want to be recognized and treated the exact same way that you want to be. If someone told you that you couldn't get legally married (again, LEGALLY married, having nothing to do with religion WHATSOEVER) because you were marrying a man, and marrying a man is wrong according to a religious text THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LEGAL ACT OF MARRIAGE, I assume you wouldn't enjoy it very much either.
First let me say that, I wasn't talking about reproductivity in homosexuals relationships--I was talking about careers and such. Reproductivity doesn't work in some heterosexual relationships because one (or both!) are infertile or it would be detrimental to the impregnated person's health. Furthermore, not everyone wants kids--I don't, for example. And neither does Angelo. I know several people (both gay and straight) that do not desire to have children other than furbabies. But, back to the original topic.
Ok, so you're saying that homosexual behavior is not found in animals? Look into Bonobos and Gut Worms and other species of primates (our closest "relative" in the animal kingdom). Animals are a bit more liberal when it comes to sexscapades. There is an article on Wiki which mentions this and, granted it is Wiki and anyone can update it, but what I've read on it is pretty accurate and can be found in other materials.
Back to the icon/idol thing. To quote from an online dictionary:
Idol: a representation or symbol of an object of worship; a likeness of something; a form or appearance visible but without substance; an object of extreme devotion; a false conception
Icon: a usually pictorial representation: image; a conventional religious image typically painted on a small wooden panel and used in the devotions of Eastern Christians; an object of uncritical devotion; emblem, symbol; a song whose form suggests its meaning
So going on those two defintions, the words have very little difference. They mean just about the same thing, though not exactly~ Thus, I present you with another Wiki article (same stipulations as mentioned above apply here too--I do not take Wiki as Holy Writ).
The things I'm stating are the ones that have been expressed to me in some way, shape, or form; like I said before, I have not been to India and I am not a Hindu~ Sacrifices are made in front of or at an altar devoted to certain god(s)--much like prayers are offered in front of (but not always at) a Christian altar.
Hindus use a statue because it's much easier to pray to someone if you have some idea of what that "person" looks like. Similar to when Zane (I think it was Zane?) asked you what Jesus looked like not too awful long ago. Wanting to know what someone looks like does not equal idolatry. Part of the mind works in images, not words, and so images make it a whole lot easier to focus on a person or thing.
Btw, I was not saying you'd find more of god by looking inside yourself, only that it'd be easier to hear what he had to say when you tune out all the noise of modern society--which is what mediation is. I do not find the voice of god in a car horn or the blare of the TV.
Hadn't heard of this book or movie until funnily a few minutes before reading your post on the TV:) Didn't really watch it very well but sounds like I'm not missing much!
Anything for some dollars!!
And love those little 'guat girl's' in their matching shorts:) So cute and hope you raised lots of $$...now that is a much better cause I say than 'Eat, pray, puke':)
Anna
(I did have the photobucket thingo read along with me:)???)
Ummm wow. I did lol at the title. haha
well, of course my thoughts are a many on this one.
I actually saw this author interviewed on Oprah a few months before we moved here to India. So since part of her experience was in India, I was all ears to hear what she said. Of course, I was clearly disappointed in her trek to find herself.
I absolutely agree that finding ourselves exists mainly in extending ourselves to serve and love others, that is after we accept Jesus as our Savior and know that we have complete assurance of our salvation as we live for Him.
But that point is, this comes after someone knows an INTERNAL personal relationship with Jesus. After someone understands what it means to walk in a personal relationship with HIM and He is not some 'orb' or some 'thing' floating out there to be found.
So saying that, I say I can't really hold her accountable to these truths because she doesn't know. I wish & pray that she did & eventually does. I do completely agree that her book is totally dangerous and very attractive to sheep who don't think.
I can say, too, from personal daily witness that people in the Hindu religion definitely regard their gods & goddess as true idol. We have a whole temple built in the middle of our playground area that contain ganesh, cali, and shiva and they are certainly not any kind of representations in the minds of those who got there every day, several times a day, to worship and pray to them. They go there with there fruit and flower offerings in hopes of creating better 'karma' and a better way of life for them when they are recreated. I see this everyday, I have talked to devote Hindus about this, there is no doubt.
Also, it's amazing to me how many middle aged women I see here, walking the streets of Calcutta, holding or reading this book. Like I said I had heard about it before I came, and ever since I see women walking around here, obviously seeking something holding their frayed, worn, stained book as if it is their Bible. My heart goes out to them and I always look to strike up a conversation with them if at all possible. Maybe just maybe they came here and God put me here in their path for a reason.
Hey Andrea,
Interesting post...makes me want to read the book just to see if I concur with the message you are getting from it.... typically, I steer clear of anything like this ESPECIALLY if it is celeb oriented....I just never HAVE figured out why I would care one way or the other what a celeb thinks on matters of politics, religion, marriage etc.... If I am interested in ANYTHING a celeb has to say, it is on their area of expertise.... Hence, I am not a fan of anything talk-show-ish....
Now, on the only real "issue" I have with your commentary, which I found entirely enjoyable to read BTW, it is this statement, "CLINGING to marriage VOWS even when it SUX."
Of course, for 17 years I did just that, despite the abuse........... and then I really HAD to decide whether "dying at the hands of my husband" was "really" within the expectations of holding to the sanctity of marriage.
Of course, I DID try again, and, as I have been told repeatedly is common in such cases, managed to fall into a very similar relationship...though, at its onset appeared 180 degrees different. Both were fueled with substance abuse and, hard as it might be to comprehend (I THINK I am finally there) I have literally NO "control" over another person's actions, addictions, etc.
My first marriage of 17 years ended in divorce with everyone still living. My second, which lasted 11 years, but with the last two not living together, ended in June, when my husband passed away in his sleep from "synergistic drug intoxication/overdose." (per death certificate with autopsy and toxicology report)
No,I do NOT believe these types of marriages are appropriately "clung to." PERHAPS....taking just enough time to KNOW myself, (not look for MY "self") would have been appropriate BEFORE entering these marriages. Iam,and have always been one who is a care "giver" ... FOCUSING on everyone else's needs... there MUST be a balance.
Nevertheless...as I write this now, I am 100% convinced, I will never again be party to wedding vows that are LEGALLY controlled. If marriage of any type is in my future, it will be between myself, my husband and my God.
I only have a moment so I will respond to Judy first -
Judy - You are ABSOLUTELY correct. In your case, as MY opinion would say, you had EVERY right to haul it outta there asap!
In the author's memoir, however, there was no mention of abuse, affairs, ..... anything really. She still "loved" him...it only got ugly after the she filed for divorce.
I DO NOT recommend holding onto a marriage when any type of abuse is occurring.
My statement was reflective of "when times are hard" in a marriage .... or even rock bottom I just don't really like you anymore I wanna go ... type of thing...
I applaud your courage in your marriages and for your ability to know what you would want in the future.
Interesting that you didn't have to find a "self" that told you what you needed but that your mind and soul knew.
Thanks for commenting...
Andrea
One more moment...
Amy - You are IMMERSED in the Hindi & Buddism experience.
Can you respond to Renee's thinking on what an Idol means to a Hindu?
Thanks -
Andrea
PS Renee - WIki articles are not sources of reliable information. The Wikipedia is an online dictionary where ANYONE can ADD their OWN definition, articles, etc. It's interesting but not something you should base your sole source of research on.
Okay I'm back -
To Anonymous...Thank you for reading and commenting. Glad you are here!
You proved my point. The gay/lesbian community simply wants the LEGAL right to be "married" and to enjoy the legal benefits that come along with it.
I find it interesting to compare your post with "Judy's Corner" post.
Whether I "know" gay people or not is not pertinent to this discussion but I can assure you I am involved in my community, talk to most everyone I meet, and accept everyone as they are without judgement.
Do you know Evangelical Christians? Are they in your circle of friends?
Andrea
I think one needs to be careful when telling others to start volunteering. I am very interested in aid work and development both in my own country and in the developing world.
Many well intentioned programmes have actually made the situation worse (I'm completely serious and its so true)
Rather than wasting your time on books you don't enjoy please read:
The Blue Sweater by Jacqueline Novogratz
Hello Medically Brunette - Glad to have ya here!
I am not promoting a specific volunteer aid organization.
If I were, I would be sure to research that organization fully before I did.
There's nothing wrong with suggesting "volunteerism" as a way to serve one's "Self" versus the selfish, modern, "cool" way of finding a "self" via looking internally.
Andrea
Renee -
You do not see animals CHANGING their MINDS about WHO they are supposed to "mate" with. That's the point of my example using the animal kingdom to support procreation as a reason for marriage.
Whether or not a married couple choses to have children is irrelevant to this discussion.
A couple may chose that but the true purpose of marriage, biblically and within most all cultures, is to promote procreation.
Andrea
Andrea it is dangerous to nonchalantly tell people to'volunteer' and vague advice 'think of others' This could mean anything and may not have the result you seek, for the betterment of humanity?
Instead, I would tentatively suggest you research this subject and what I have given you. Put your energies into what you can recommend is good for others to do rather than having your focus on the negatives of what they must
stay away from.
You say there is nothing wrong with promoting volunteering, I'm afraid from where I am standing, as a longstanding volunteer that is simply not true.
First of all, I said in the comment with the links that anyone can update Wiki and that the things stated there can be found in other sources--thus indicating I have read/researched more than just through Wiki. I know it's an unreliable source, I pointed that out myself~ :)
That being said, I too know someone (aside from Amy) who is immersed in Hindi culture. He's studied it in college and spent a semester studying abroad there and will be returning to India shortly.
I messaged him earlier for his thoughts on the matter since, obviously, I'm not immersed in that culture and nor do I claim to know everything about it (btw, if that's how I was coming off--sorry, didn't mean to~).
He pointed out to me that yes, some Hindu's do view their idols in the way that you are talking about but not all of them do. So in a sense here, we're both right.
Animal Kingdom stuff--bisexuality is the attraction to BOTH genders and is found in the animal kingdom. So, actually, there are some animals who DO change their minds about who they mate with. Not all animals mate for life--regardless of whether they are gay/bi/straight.
Also, you brought up procreation within same sex marriage and therefore it is relevant. But I digress, I agree that they would have to adopt--two women cannot create a baby by themselves and neither can two men.
However, I know several gay/lesbian/bisexual people WELL. As in, some of them are my best friends. That being said, yes, most of them do want the legal rights that comes with a legal marriage (by the way I disagree with your anon poster, marriage is completely a religious thing~). They want to be able to visit their partner in the hospital if something were to happen; they want to be able to put both of their names on a home loan instead of just one; they want to be able to adopt a child if they desire to have children; etc.
And just so we're clear here, I do not doubt the existence of Jesus--I know there is documented history of a man by such a name (and I'm not talking about the modern day hispanics who take that name). Thought I'd toss that out there because I get the sense that you're thinking I believe otherwise~
Medically Brunette -
I'm really trying to understand where you are coming from.
You said...
"Instead, I would tentatively suggest you research this subject and what I have given you. Put your energies into what you can recommend is good for others to do rather than having your focus on the negatives of what they must
stay away from."
HHmmmm...I am suggesting to volunteer. To help others. To be other-oriented. IE Police Officers, Nurses, feed the hungry, help an orphan, take dinner to a neighbor, rub your husband's back, Firefighter ... kinda stuff.
I don't see a list of "stay away froms".
The overall point of my post is that Ms. Gilbert was so incredibly focused on "self" that she lost track of where she could make an impact, thus encouraging her "lost" feeling.
Could you be more specific in regards to how, in being a lifelong volunteer in something, you have hurt someone/thing?
I appreciate your time and thoughts as I try to work through what you are saying...
Andrea
Great retrospect on why we as a humanity need to learn that we are not "animals" and therefore part of the "community of animals"...we are created beings made in the likeness of God...there is no other verifiable evidence that we evolved from anything...if that was so...then in our lifetime we would see some form of evolution if that were so...so this is not a creative thought...it's a demonic thought to think "Humans" are "evolved" because it's simply not true...and there is absolutely no verifiable evidence to support such...and scientists know this much...there is a process called "adaptation" which is basically why we have different skin tones and facial features...they are regional to the natural elements related to the origins of different "nations"...the concept of "race" is also a false idea...as we are all "human" therefore a part of one race...the "human race"...homosexuality is a sickness...it's a selfish idea that comes from spiritually mislead souls by demonic forces...God sees it as an abomination before him...because it goes against the idea of His creation...
Seeking Christ within oneself as a Christian is not seeking self and hoping to find Christ there...to distort that issue is just as bad as distorting the idea of Marriage...as one who is deceived would say that Marriage comes from the courthouse...that's funny...because where do you think they got that idea...years ago people used to actually understand the sanctity of Marriage and how it was related to God and honor to the idea that God created within humanity...the idea that He would create a man first...but He saw that the man was lonely...and so he took from the man a part of him to create a woman...so he wouldn't be lonely...then he gave them a unique set of creative tools to continue the creation through the original design...it's the Devil and his Demons that spiritually distort the idea that humankind is not a Divine Creation...
Great post...you are right...no matter what anyone tells you...be encouraged...take care...
Blue
"Well Oprah! Let me tell you about my Divine Experience with the Oreo. My life, every month, simply was LACKING something. I felt like I was always searching for that ONE thing that could possibly FILL the void that was consuming my mind.
I needed something, ANYTHING to make me stand up and raise my hands and rejoice in the fact that I had FOUND what I needed.
So one day I was standing in the grocery store. A STORE OPRAH! And I was thinking about what I felt I NEEDED. What my SOUL was aching for. And as I turned into the cookie aisle, THERE IT WAS. It was before me. It was calling me. It was speaking to me in a way that Only I COULD understand.
I slowly walked towards it. My hands were shaking, my mind was getting clearer and clearer with each step. I could feel a type of energy literally SURGING THROUGH my body as I got closer to that thing that was making me feel so powerful. So Strong. So......COMPLETE!
I stopped. I closed my eyes and I took a deep breath. It was there. right in front of me the whole time. All those YEARS I was searching for this "Thing". I took the package off the shelf. I held it in my hands. I understood so many things at that point. I looked around and thought "why not open it now? It only seems like the RIGHT thing to do."
SO I did. Right there in the middle of the store I OPENED that package. I lifted my shaking fingers and grabbed the OREO. I cannot describe the feeling oprah. I simply have a hard time putting into words WHAT THAT MOMENT felt like! I knew what I had to do next. It was what I had been waiting for all my life.
Slowly, I lifted it to my mouth. And I bit down.
I was crying Oprah! It was what I needed! It was what I had to have to understand ME, My life,My Cravings!
I had avoided it for so long. I knew it was something that I should NOT have, but I also knew it was something I HAD TO HAVE. It changed me. It made me a BETTER person. My husband wasn't afraid of me anymore. My family was THRILLED to find out that ALL it took, all that was needed, was that package of Oreos to turn me INTO the girl they once all loved and adored.
I WAS BACK. I WAS FOUND. I was ME again. Happy. Satisfied. Fulfilled.
Yes...it was...the Oreo that changed my life.
Oh Oprah...dont cry sad tears for me. Cry tears of happiness! Pass the kleenex Gayle.....
good post andrea
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